E9 Mods Potential

feels

New Member
#1
Any1 care to discuss in details between E9 and previous Generation in terms of mods ?

In terms of ECU usuable, cams, Turbos ...

1. Are there any ECUs that are meant for the MIVEC less MOTEC ?

2. Are Cams available for MIVEC (not removing MIVEC) ?

Etc etc ......
 

DoggieHowser

Moderator
Staff member
#2
Have you ever driven the Evo9?

Why do you feel it is necessary to modify it?

IMHO, getting the most from the stock car with skills is far more important that just tuning up the power alone :)

While the Evo is fast, I feel it is a waste to tune it just to go fast in a straight line. You can get much more optimal drag cars than Evos.

But try driving the Evo on the track. You'd be surprised how a fairly stock Evo 9 can humble a much more modified Evo on the tracks with a good driver behind the wheel. In fact, I reckon a less experienced driver will do better on a stock Evo 9 than in a more powerful one.

But that's just my preference.
 

feels

New Member
#3
DoggieHowser said:
Have you ever driven the Evo9?

Why do you feel it is necessary to modify it?

IMHO, getting the most from the stock car with skills is far more important that just tuning up the power alone :)

While the Evo is fast, I feel it is a waste to tune it just to go fast in a straight line. You can get much more optimal drag cars than Evos.

But try driving the Evo on the track. You'd be surprised how a fairly stock Evo 9 can humble a much more modified Evo on the tracks with a good driver behind the wheel. In fact, I reckon a less experienced driver will do better on a stock Evo 9 than in a more powerful one.

But that's just my preference.
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
 

JudgeJules

Moderator
Staff member
#4
If you are serious on power and serious mod will ultimately involve the internals, then the Mivec will no longer be applicable. Isn't this the same as modding an E8?

Hence in term of potential power, I believe all 4G63 is about the same given the same amount of mod...
 

DoggieHowser

Moderator
Staff member
#5
feels said:
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
ah so :)

I know of one Evo MR owner who DID make the switch :)

For the rest of us, I don't know.

I think the E9 is marginally faster than the E8MR in stock condition on the track and on the 0-100. This is primarily on the high end.

But where it wins IMHO is the enhanced driveability in the low/mid end when the MIVEC works really well, and when the mag turbo spools very quickly.

If this is important, then by all means, get the E9.

As for tuning potential, I don't know. MIVEC tuning on the 4G63 is still new so some tuners recommend disabling MIVEC. I believe this simplifies the head assembly (and probably helps in reliability for endurance/track) and primarily because you would be in high revs anyway for most of the time so not so much use to vary the cam phase for lower rpms.
 

masschaoz

Well-Known Member
#6
DoggieHowser said:
feels said:
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
ah so :)

I know of one Evo MR owner who DID make the switch :)

For the rest of us, I don't know.

I think the E9 is marginally faster than the E8MR in stock condition on the track and on the 0-100. This is primarily on the high end.

But where it wins IMHO is the enhanced driveability in the low/mid end when the MIVEC works really well, and when the mag turbo spools very quickly.

If this is important, then by all means, get the E9.

As for tuning potential, I don't know. MIVEC tuning on the 4G63 is still new so some tuners recommend disabling MIVEC. I believe this simplifies the head assembly (and probably helps in reliability for endurance/track) and primarily because you would be in high revs anyway for most of the time so not so much use to vary the cam phase for lower rpms.
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well.. speaking from my own pt of view.. i think disabling mivec is a mistake.. i feel tat its still applicable for big horses.. like u've said.. mivec tuning is still new, so maybe some tuners recommend disabling it.. not tat its no good..but juz tat they cant do a good job.. otherwise if they do a screwup tuning.. they wld be branded as lousy juz becos they cant tune mivec.. (no pun intended)
 

DoggieHowser

Moderator
Staff member
#7
masschaoz said:
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well..
Maybe.. but from the torque curves of the E9s vs the E8MRs, the biggest gains are in the mid/low end. The high end part of the torque curves for the E9 and E8MR look nigh identical.
 

Pikachu

Active Member
#8
masschaoz said:
DoggieHowser said:
feels said:
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
ah so :)

I know of one Evo MR owner who DID make the switch :)

For the rest of us, I don't know.

I think the E9 is marginally faster than the E8MR in stock condition on the track and on the 0-100. This is primarily on the high end.

But where it wins IMHO is the enhanced driveability in the low/mid end when the MIVEC works really well, and when the mag turbo spools very quickly.

If this is important, then by all means, get the E9.

As for tuning potential, I don't know. MIVEC tuning on the 4G63 is still new so some tuners recommend disabling MIVEC. I believe this simplifies the head assembly (and probably helps in reliability for endurance/track) and primarily because you would be in high revs anyway for most of the time so not so much use to vary the cam phase for lower rpms.
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well.. speaking from my own pt of view.. i think disabling mivec is a mistake.. i feel tat its still applicable for big horses.. like u've said.. mivec tuning is still new, so maybe some tuners recommend disabling it.. not tat its no good..but juz tat they cant do a good job.. otherwise if they do a screwup tuning.. they wld be branded as lousy juz becos they cant tune mivec.. (no pun intended)
The MIVEC technology exist only on the intake camshaft of the E9 and not on the exhaust camshaft. This IMO is good for stock setup with its faster spooling turbine at stock boost. Tuning issues I think will start to surface when the boost is increased.
 

ejay20tee

Well-Known Member
#9
DoggieHowser said:
masschaoz said:
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well..
Maybe.. but from the torque curves of the E9s vs the E8MRs, the biggest gains are in the mid/low end. The high end part of the torque curves for the E9 and E8MR look nigh identical.
Agree.
I have a 8MR and my bro has a 9GSR.
The mivec does increase the lo/mid range...and the engine induction on the stock airbox sounds better den the juice-blender one of the 8MR.

:D
 

kai3323

Well-Known Member
#10
masschaoz said:
DoggieHowser said:
feels said:
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
ah so :)

I know of one Evo MR owner who DID make the switch :)

For the rest of us, I don't know.

I think the E9 is marginally faster than the E8MR in stock condition on the track and on the 0-100. This is primarily on the high end.

But where it wins IMHO is the enhanced driveability in the low/mid end when the MIVEC works really well, and when the mag turbo spools very quickly.

If this is important, then by all means, get the E9.

As for tuning potential, I don't know. MIVEC tuning on the 4G63 is still new so some tuners recommend disabling MIVEC. I believe this simplifies the head assembly (and probably helps in reliability for endurance/track) and primarily because you would be in high revs anyway for most of the time so not so much use to vary the cam phase for lower rpms.
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well.. speaking from my own pt of view.. i think disabling mivec is a mistake.. i feel tat its still applicable for big horses.. like u've said.. mivec tuning is still new, so maybe some tuners recommend disabling it.. not tat its no good..but juz tat they cant do a good job.. otherwise if they do a screwup tuning.. they wld be branded as lousy juz becos they cant tune mivec.. (no pun intended)
I would think so for a relatively stock car.

Tuning the MIVEC cam can be a real pain. However, if properly done with matching setup, the MIVEC head actually gives a better spread of torque accross the entire rpm range. The MIVEC cams allows for 15 deg variability on each side. So effectively you have a 245degree to 275 degree cam on the intake side. Exhaust cams however remains at 260 deg. Other thing remains, if the hardware can support this sustained increase in torque, then shd get more hp.

For bigger turbos 3037 or 3071, the tuned MIVEC actually allows better mid-range driveability........and low end idling!!...heheheh So for daily drive, the MIVEC is a real gem!

But then, to get better high end, most will jus swap to more agressive cams.
 

Pikachu

Active Member
#11
kai3323 said:
masschaoz said:
DoggieHowser said:
feels said:
Currently driving an E8MR and yes, I have driven the E9. Car feels good from pick-up all the way to mid-range.
Indeed on track, stock E9 is a decent.
Maybe I should re-phrase my qs, is it worth to switch from E8 to E9 considering the mods potential.
ah so :)

I know of one Evo MR owner who DID make the switch :)

For the rest of us, I don't know.

I think the E9 is marginally faster than the E8MR in stock condition on the track and on the 0-100. This is primarily on the high end.

But where it wins IMHO is the enhanced driveability in the low/mid end when the MIVEC works really well, and when the mag turbo spools very quickly.

If this is important, then by all means, get the E9.

As for tuning potential, I don't know. MIVEC tuning on the 4G63 is still new so some tuners recommend disabling MIVEC. I believe this simplifies the head assembly (and probably helps in reliability for endurance/track) and primarily because you would be in high revs anyway for most of the time so not so much use to vary the cam phase for lower rpms.
but the mivec actually enhances the high end power as well.. speaking from my own pt of view.. i think disabling mivec is a mistake.. i feel tat its still applicable for big horses.. like u've said.. mivec tuning is still new, so maybe some tuners recommend disabling it.. not tat its no good..but juz tat they cant do a good job.. otherwise if they do a screwup tuning.. they wld be branded as lousy juz becos they cant tune mivec.. (no pun intended)
I would think so for a relatively stock car.

Tuning the MIVEC cam can be a real pain. However, if properly done with matching setup, the MIVEC head actually gives a better spread of torque accross the entire rpm range. The MIVEC cams allows for 15 deg variability on each side. So effectively you have a 245degree to 275 degree cam on the intake side. Exhaust cams however remains at 260 deg. Other thing remains, if the hardware can support this sustained increase in torque, then shd get more hp.

For bigger turbos 3037 or 3071, the tuned MIVEC actually allows better mid-range driveability........and low end idling!!...heheheh So for daily drive, the MIVEC is a real gem!

But then, to get better high end, most will jus swap to more agressive cams.
Is there already aftermarket intake cams for the E9 that has the two lobes for MIVEC? Would the VTEC to MIVEC module from Apexi work for either piggyback ECU or standalone?
 

kai3323

Well-Known Member
#12
The MIVEC works on Cam phasing, so unlike the earlier VTECs there is only one cam lobe. Ecus like AEM, motec and fcon and ecutek has been proven to be able to work well with the MIVEC head.
 

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